More common mistakes in keigo

Back with more common mistakes when using polite Japanese (keigo).


Example 4: Did I give you permission?

Wrong: 当社ではIT商品を中心に開発させていただいております。 (tousha dewa IT shouhin wo chuushin ni kaihatsusasete itadaiteorimasu)
Right: 当社ではIT商品を中心に開発しております。 (tousha dewa IT shouhin wo chuushin ni kaihatsushite orimasu)

The sentence itself means "Our company focus on developing IT products."

This example is not a mistake in all cases. Nevertheless, using the first form shows a shaky command of keigo - more especifically, of kenjyougo (謙譲語). In short, "you know something, but not enough."

Kenjyougo is used to humble oneself or parts more related to oneself than to the listener (one's own family or company, for example). Some verbs have special forms (like the 拝見する in an example in a previous keigo post), and those one can't help but remember. For most others, there's a general rule similar to the one for sonkeigo explained in the previous post (お／ご～になる).

The general rule for kenjyougo verbs consists of placing the affix (接辞) お or ご in front of the verb in the continuative form (連用形). So far, it's the same as sonkeigo. But after the verb, we add する; or いたす - the humble form of する - for some extra politeness.

But there's a catch. Not all verbs can be transformed that way. In general, verbs that deal with feelings (laugh / 笑う; cry / 泣く; be disappointed / がっかりする) and verbs that deals with actions related to the self (return / 帰る; marry / 結婚する; sit / 座る) can't be "humbled" through the form above. Actually, since they refer to one's self, there's officially no need to run those verbs through kenjyougo.

Still, many Japanese people want to show politeness even with those verbs. Others get confused with the special forms. So they resort to one different form: （さ）せていだだく.

The magic of this form is that it can be used with any verb. And there are no special forms, so they all follow the same basic structure: the verb in the causative form (使役動詞) followed by （さ）せていただく. Thus "eat" (食べる) becomes 食べさせていただきます; send (送る) becomes 送らせていただきます; sit (座る) becomes 座らせていただきます.

There's only one problem. This form is (correctly) used mostly in situations where one asks for permission or receives it. Although it may also be used to show manners towards other people present, as it has the connotation of asking for/receiving permission, those who overuse it are not only seen as having insufficient knowledgle of keigo (if using this form in cases when one of the other forms would be preferable), they also might be seen as people who "do things as if they've received permission from others when actually they didn't".

In the initial example, the listener might think: "I don't remember giving you permission to focus on IT products..."


Example 5: Half a right is not a right.

Wrong: 先生はおられますか。 (sensei wa oraremasu ka?)
Right: 先生はいらっしゃいますか。 (sensei wa irasshaimasu ka?)

This one has a good range of possible translations: "Is the teacher here?", "Is the professor present?", "Is the doctor there?"... But you probably got the idea. The same sentence in a less formal way would be 先生はいますか (sensei wa imasu ka).

Let's check the polite forms for the verb いる (to be, there is/are, to exist):
尊敬語 (sonkeigo)：いらっしゃる (irassharu)
謙譲語 (kenjyougo)：おる (oru)

Wait a second... Why is the humble form (おる) being used towards a professor/teacher/doctor? In this case, there is an attempt to turn the humble form into something that shows respect towards that person. That is the られる form.

Most known for indicating passive voice, られる may also be used to express respect toward the listener or a third person when the subject is someone who is respected. Also, if させていただく is the magic form for kenjyougo, られる is its equivalent for sonkeigo. There's little variation from the basic structure: the same for conjugating verbs in the passive voice (受身), which makes it simpler.

Nevertheless, combining a kenjyougo form with られる doesn't just fail to turn the result into sonkeigo, it is also grammar mistake.

(And even if it did, use of られる is considered less polite than the other forms of songeigo. It is looked down less often than させていただく, still one shouldn't overuse られる either.)

Reasons for that mistake in my opinion is basically a combination of two factors:
1- Some people either don't know that いらっしゃる is the sonkeigo form of いる or they may know, but not be confortable with it because of the most common use of that verb: when a customer enters a store, it is normal to hear from the employees いらっしゃいませ！ ("Welcome! May I help you?").
2- The られる form actually can't be combined with neither special kenjyougo verbs (おる, 拝見する) nor sonkeigo verbs (召し上がる, なさる), but the verb いる is not much used in its passive form (there's some discussion on whether いられる exists or not in modern Japanese. Some sources I found say it is not acceptable and others say it's only not usual. None is totally reliable, though), おる doesn't have that problem.
(The mistake of combining られる and sonkeigo verb is known as a form of redundant keigo, or 二重敬語)

Thus, おられる becomes a failed attempt to produce a new sonkeigo verb.


Example 6: What's the alternative?

Wrong: ご注文の方は以上でよろしいですか。 (go-chuumon no hou wa ijyou de yoroshii desu ka?)
Right: ご注文は以上でよろしいですか。 (go-chuumon wa ijyou de yoroshii desu ka?)

The good thing of reusing an example is that you don't have to explain it all over again, but I will anyway... by copy-and-paste.

The correct version means "Will that be all?" or "Is there anything else you'd like to order?" As the translation itself indicates, this sentence is said after a customer orders something as a mean to verify if there's nothing else he/she would like to order.

This time, the mistake is different, though. The use of の方 in this sentence just isn't correct.

Grammatically speaking, の方 has two main uses:

1- When comparing things. Example: りんごよりバナナの方が好き ("I like more bananas than apples")

2- When indicating vicinity (approximation). Example: その店は駅の方にあります ("That store is near/around the station")

So, which one is the の方 used in this example? If we assume comparison, what is the order being compared to? Is the person asking if I'd like to order or do something else? And if we assume approximation it gets even worse... I can't even make a joke for that one.

Why this happens? Again, my best bet is the frenzy for indirectiveness when speaking politely in Japanese, based on the second meaning. An "approximation" is more vague, thus might be considered more polite.

Searching for sources on this one, I found something interesting. This link leads to a pdf file with some discussion about the use of 方. And to describe uses of の方 the author uses the word ぼかし (bokashi), which can be translated as "making something vague".
(That's the "approximation" use I guess... That's why you need examples in things like dictionaries.)

Wow! A word that says on its description it makes things vague. No wonder it is used for politeness...

Thanks to Claus for remembering this one.


Aftermatch

I plan to finish my posts about polite Japanese for now. And one thing I have to say is even though the examples I've shown are regarded as mistakes nowadays, since languages are modified by people continuously, they may become standard Japanese someday.

But, for now, they should be avoided by people who want to give a good impression when using polite Japanese.

Common mistakes in keigo

Since I'm taking Business Japanese classes this semester, I will keep the "educative" contents of the blog alive with one more post about Japanese polite language, a.k.a. keigo.

I won't go through explaining it all. There are many sites on the internet that do it better than I probably could. I will link Wikipedia just for the sake of having a direct link from this blog.

I said in my previous post about keigo that even Japanese make mistakes with it. So, I will discuss a little about some common mistakes people make when using Japanese honorifics. Some call those mistakes famikon go (ファミコン語) because they are heard most often in family restaurants (ファミリーレストラン) and convenience stores (コンビニ) that hire many temporary staff, but can't give them all proper training in keigo. (Japanese companies usually train their staff in business manners during their first year.)


Example 1: It will become what!?

Wrong: これはサラダになります。 (Kore wa sarada ni narimasu.)
Right: これはサラダでございます。 (Kore wa sarada de gozaimasu.)

One of the mistakes I can identify when I hear, which makes it the one I hear the most. It can be heard most often when waiters bring meals or drinks.

The same sentence in a less formal way would be これはサラダです (kore wa sarada desu), which literaly means "This is (the) salad." The polite way for です is でございます (or でいらっしゃいます when the subject is another person), justifying the correct form.

The wrong form translates as "This will become (or becomes) salad." Yes, this mistake has many openings for jokes. But why this mistake happens? My best guess is that they resort to the "generic form" of sonkeigo (尊敬語), trying to be respectful towards the client.

That generic form consists basically of adding になる at the end of a verb in the continuative form (連用形) preceded by the proper affix (接辞) - the 御 (o/go) mentioned in the previous post. For example, send (送る) by that form becomes お送りになる; wait (待つ) becomes お待ちになる. Even some verbs with special forms also have になる at the end, like ご覧になる and お越しになる.

And we finally see a pattern on how something that IS a salad manages to BECOME a salad...


Example 2: A 5000 bill is giving what!?

Wrong: 5000円からお預かりします。 (5000 en kara o-azukarishimasu.)
Right: 5000円をお預かりします。 (5000 en wo o-azukarishimasu.)

This one I also hear sometimes. It is most common to hear it when paying a bill.

As you may have noticed, it is not so much a mistake in honorifics. It is a general grammar mistake; more especifically, a mistake in the use of particles (助詞).

The meaning is, in a free translation, "(You) have entrusted (me) with 5000 yen" (this verb is not a simple one to translate. I will oversimplify and use "receive" henceforth). The particle を usually indicates the direct object of the sentence and that in accord with the correct form.

On the other hand, the particle から indicates point of origin. And under this interpretation, instead of "receiving 5000 yen", that person would be "receiving from 5000 yen" (I wonder what that person is receiving).

About the reasons for this mistake, I am a bit clueless. Since that sentence is often said when there is some change involved (a bill of 4500 yen paid with a 5000 yen note, for example), I guess it is a form of saying that the bill will be paid deducting FROM that 5000 note.


Example 3: It was ok already, right?

Wrong: ご注文は以上でよろしかったですか。 (go-chuumon wa ijyou de yoroshikatta desu ka?)
Right: ご注文は以上でよろしいですか。 (go-chuumon wa ijyou de yoroshii desu ka?)

This time I have to start with the translation. The correct version means "Will that be all?" or "Is there anything else you'd like to order?" As the translation itself indicates, this sentence is said after a customer orders something as a mean to verify if there's nothing else he/she would like to order.

The different point between the two sentences is the use of the word "よろしい", which means in this case "ok" or "all right". The first sentence is in past form (よろしかった), while the second is in plain form (よろしい).

So, instead of asking, it seems like the person saying the sentence decided that the customer doesn't want anything else and is just confirming when using the past form. Something like "Oh, you didn't want anything else anyway, right?".

Why there's a verb tense mistake among the problems with keigo? For this one I am on shaky ground, but the past form may look more polite. It's probably related to how the Japanese culture favors indirectiveness in speech, especially when making or refusing requests. So the past form looks more roundabout, therefore - for many people - more appropriate.

However, in this case, it actually makes a question look almost like an imposition...

Japanese Polite Language (敬語)

After you reach a certain level of Japanese proficiency, there are two types of classes that are especially challenging.

One is old Japanese. Usually necessary for those who read old books or do research related to Japanese culture or History. Not my case. And since modern Japanese still gives me a lot of trouble, even though it helps to explain modern Japanese (for example, why there are two characters for "o"? Namely 「お」 and 「を」), I'll pass this one for now.

Another one, and this one is very hard to ignore, is polite Japanese, or keigo (敬語).

Why is this challenging? One point is that in many cases, words and even sentences are altered completely. For example, "soshite" (そして), which means "and / then", becomes "narabi ni" (ならびに); "Ashita" ("tomorrow") becomes "myounichi", even though the kanji is still the same (明日). Even the simple "sou desu ka?" (そうですか), meaning "really?" or "all right", becomes "sayou degozaimasu ka" (さようでございますか).

Another point, although this one is personal, is that from my Brazilian background, it is not so easy to always think of the relative ranking of the person I'm talking to and use the correct level of politeness. I'm used to just mirror the politeness of the person I'm talking to, and to get informal as the person is closer to me. That doesn't work here.

As I mentioned "correct level", it is important to mention there are various forms of polite language in Japanese. Sonkeigo is used to elevate other people (used towards people who are older or "socially superior" in some way); kenjyougo is used to humble oneself (towards someone "superior"); teineigo is the standard polite language (and the one I usually stick to for being the safest and simplest).

So, if a professor sees my report, "sensei wa watashi no repooto wo goran ni naru" (先生は私のレポートをご覧になる); if I see my professor somewhere, "watashi wa sensei wo haiken suru" (私は先生を拝見する); if I see a movie, "watashi wa eiga wo mimasu" (私は映画を見ます). Those were, respectively, the sonkeigo, kenjyougo and teineigo forms of the verb miru (見る), whose meaning is easy to guess from the examples.

There are some other details and variations, like placing 御 ("o" or "go") at the beginning of words to beautify them, but I won't go too deep this time.

The bottom line is that even Japanese people themselves often make mistakes when using polite language beyond the simple teineigo.

A comic book I read recently after reading about it on Muito Japão 2 is 日本人の知らない日本語 (free translation: "Japanese Language Japanese People don't Know"). It is very funny for those who had the chance of studying Japanese in Japan, for they can relate to some situations mentioned in the comics. It also has many curiosities, mostly about Japanese language. And the book also mentions Japanese polite language, how Japanese people often make mistakes on it and some situations with foreign students.

And how much keigo should foreigners know? It depends. This Japan Times article says that foreigners who use too much keigo are seen as show offs. On the other hand, Japanese raised abroad are eventually criticized for their shaky command of keigo. The only problem is since I have Asian looks I may be closer to the second case.

The article also says that "Making mistakes in keigo or using too much keigo and seeming 'ingin burei' (appearing insincere with excessive politeness) leaves a worse impression than not using it." So I guess I'll try to stick to the safe side.

But before I mentioned that keigo is hard to ignore, didn't I? Yes, and it is because even if you don't use it, be sure you will listen to it... a lot.

Himeji Castle Moon Viewing Festival

Between the heat of summer and the red leaves of autumn, there is another event in Japan. Although less celebrated, tsukimi (月見), or moon viewing, is also an important point in the Japanese calendar.

While looking for references, I found this blog that explains tsukimi in a nice way. So, instead of keeping my usual (long) explanations, I will recommend people to go there take a look.

One thing that should be noted is that the event follows the lunar calendar. Although it makes sense considering it's a moon viewing event, that also means the actual day changes every year in the usual Gregorian calendar. This year (2009), the day is October 3rd.

On that day, the moon is at its fullest. Also, skies were clear enough for clear visibility, with some occasional clouds that actually made the scene more beautiful.


Where was I? Back in Himeji for the Himeji Castle Moon Viewing Festival (姫路城観月会). At the park in front of the castle, people gather to watch performances, enjoy the moon, eat and drink. And about drinking, there is also another point that festival is famous for: buying just one cup of sake (500 yen, if I remember well), it is possible to drink all the sake you want from various makers who participate in the festival.

That also leads to very drunk people here and there. Anyway, that's a different story...


In my case, it was just a good opportunity to meet some friends in Himeji (or part of it as some people were absent) and take pictures of the moon and the castle.

(Note: this is a computer processed picture. The moon and the castle weren't that perfectly aligned.)

Those may be my last pictures of the castle, so I could not miss the chance as well. Why? Well, besides the fact I'm approaching graduation, Himeji Castle will go under restoration from this moon viewing festival to 2014.

To those who have never been there, until March it seems they will only bring materials for the restoration, so it will still be possible to see and go inside the castle. Don't miss this chance.